Cynthia Hurd & David Barry

“I was raised on a farm in Dewey, Oklahoma. My dad worked in insurance relating to the oil and gas industry, and in the early 1980s, we moved to Plano, Texas. It was a small city then, and I watched it grow into a large suburb of Dallas. My graduating high school class was larger than the entire city of Dewey where I grew up.”

Interviewed by Jonathan Rozek for Ten Paths. David Lindahl was not involved in editing these interviews.

Cynthia: I was raised on a farm in Dewey, Oklahoma. My dad worked in insurance relating to the oil and gas industry, and in the early 1980s, we moved to Plano, Texas. It was a small city then, and I watched it grow into a large suburb of Dallas. My graduating high school class was larger than the entire city of Dewey where I grew up.

I went on to receive a degree in vocal performance and education from the University of North Texas. I began teaching music in the public school system, but was also always involved in church ministry. I was unaware at this point how my career and calling would lead me down the path of music ministry. My mentor, at a church in Plano, took me under his wing and I began my career as a music director in ministry in the church I grew up in. I had several entrepreneurial businesses on the side, until a full-time music-ministry position led me to the Fort Worth area.

Jon: How did you get involved in real estate investing?

Cynthia: I was at the church near Fort Worth for almost nine years when I knew I was seeking more. My boyfriend is a professional licensed therapist with a couple of offices, and one of them was in a commercial strip mall in West Fort Worth. I had been considering different ideas for a business to start up or invest in. My boyfriend told me the owner of the West Fort Worth property came to him and said: “I'm going to sell this building, so you might want to lock in your lease so your rate doesn't go up.”

I had no training in real estate, but that didn’t stop me from exploring what I thought was an opportunity for my future. The property was located where two major highways came together, and it sat right in the path of progress. This was an area I knew would be booming in the next few years. I took a leap of faith, called the owner, and just made a pitch. I tried not to B.S. too much and step into something I couldn’t handle, but I also wanted to be real and sell myself as well as I could to him. I wanted him to trust that I could own this building and continue the legacy he had started.

Well, he took a liking to me, and took me under his wing. I reached out to some of my friends from the church, who are involved in real estate and they jumped in to support me. Before I knew it, they helped me with a connection at a bank, and set up a meeting with the bank president to pitch the property for a loan.

Jon: This was what kind of property?

Cynthia: It was an 8,000 square foot strip mall. I was a nervous wreck before this meeting, so the night before I was to meet with the bank president, I read Commercial Real Estate for Dummies. I knew the basic principles of running a business, but I knew nothing about real estate, so it was a logical place to start. I met with the bank president, and 45 days later, I had the keys to the building.

Jon: How did you analyze the numbers on that deal?

Cynthia: It wasn’t fancy. I previously had a business on the side, so I laid it out by income and expenses, made some estimates regarding the city’s growth, and the numbers looked good. Now, I realize my level of analysis might make professionals cringe, but I got lucky. I also had a really good support system of people who had been in the business, and who walked with me through the process.

That's one of the things I later heard Dave Lindahl3 talk about: you don't have to reinvent the wheel. (Note: For the rest of this interview, we’ll call him “Lindahl” to distinguish him from Dave Barry, who is business partner with Cynthia Hurd.) Get with the people who are already doing it and learn from them. Don't try to do your own thing at first.

I didn't know Lindahl at this point, but I used my informal network. The bank went through my numbers and was OK with them. The one thing a consultant for the bank told me, which my business partner Dave and I talk about a lot, is that numbers don't lie. Get out of the emotion. Stay out of the: “Oh, we gotta have this deal.” You've got to get emotion out of the process and not become too connected to the properties.

Numbers don't lie: If the numbers work, the property works. I've had this building now for five years, and it's been quite successful. After the first year, I decided to step out of ministry and do this full time. And that's when I found Lindahl.

Jon: You have how many properties at this point?

Cynthia: Together we have three apartment complexes, plus a strip mall.

That's how I got bit by the real estate bug. I have triplet boys who are now 17 years old. I'm a single mom, so I had to find a way to make sure I could support a home and feed them—which is probably more than the mortgage—and that was concerning to me. I wanted the freedom of time to be with them, to drive them back and forth to school, and to be a part of their lives. This was really important to me, and I believed this career would help me to achieve those goals.

My boyfriend heard an advertisement for one of Lindahl’s Saturday events. It’s where you show up and hear the pitch for a couple of hours, and we liked what we heard. We signed up to attend the big three-day weekend event that was in our area, and that’s when we really decided to jump into this business.

Jon: I don't know a thing about music ministry, but my guess is that it's probably not super-highly paid.

Cynthia: I’ve always said when working for the Lord, you get rewards in other ways besides money.

Jon: I can see that. So how much of a leap did you feel like you were taking when you were doing that first deal?

Cynthia: The one by myself? It was a huge leap. I didn't sleep for nights. It was stressful, but also exciting, and it got my adrenaline running. A part of me thought I might be the stupidest person on earth to even attempt this. My family was supportive, but my sister thought I was a little crazy. She was there to support me, but she said: “I don't get it. I would never take that risk.” Most of my friends were like: “You're doing what now? Real estate?”

Even some of my friends who were in the business said: “You’re a single mom with children to feed. It's just too risky. Don't do it.”

Jon: Even the people in the business were telling you not to do it?

Cynthia: Yes. Most of them were renting single-family homes, or had commercial property, but none of them was in multifamily. They were like: “Oh, you'll be getting calls at all hours of the day” and other objections.

You want to trust your family and friends, right? You believe them, and they’re influential over you. But at some point, I knew I needed to follow what I believed was the best path for myself and my boys. At my core, I will be led by my faith. As much as I love my family and friends, this was the right path for me. So, I will always consider feedback from my friends and family, but at the same time, I also felt very confident in this property and with moving forward. When you hear Lindahl share his story, and how others are making a living by investing in real estate, it feels obtainable. I felt like: Yeah, I think I can do that.

When we attended the three-day weekend and were meeting Lindahl’s team and other investors, we heard so many stories of people buying properties. It’s kind of hard to believe them at first, because you think: Oh, they want us to sign up; they’ll tell us anything.

There's a little skepticism there. Then you talk to other people who are doing it, and who have done it, and you think: Hey, maybe I can make this work. Maybe I'm not as crazy as everybody thinks I am. You find out that it does work and there is a process—there's a way to do it that works.

I talked to some people who didn’t follow Lindahl’s steps for success, and they got burned and lost a lot of money. I resonated with the steps and checklists Lindahl provided for success. If you follow the formula and steps, it can work. It requires hard work and it also involves risk. I know what I personally went through with my questions, my fear of failure, and making the time to devote to my business. Therefore I understand how easy it is to want to skip steps, or not submit LOI’s, or not pick up the phone and call brokers.

The fear of the unknown, or of being rejected, or feeling like I didn’t have the confidence to talk to a broker about a property can be crippling. It can keep you from ever moving forward in this business. I personally had to beat back those fears that crept into my head. I focused every day on the steps, the education, the weekly phone calls, and every other resource Lindahl provided.

Jon: We're all inundated with so many get-rich-quick stories and hearing about “out-of-control ATMs spewing money at you”. All the stories sound good, and sometimes you just aren't sure which ones are legitimate, and which opportunities are junk. How do you navigate all that?

Cynthia: I think if you go into a Lindahl program thinking it's a get-rich-quick opportunity, you will be disappointed. It just doesn't work that way. You're one person in a sea of people trying to buy apartment complexes. It's hard work, it's boots on the ground, and there's nothing quick about it.

Jon: Dave, what's your backstory?

Dave: My parents were Catholic missionaries, and I was born in Papua New Guinea. I spent the first three years of my life there. I say this because I want to make the point that you should choose your business partners carefully. Faith is the common bond for Cynthia and me.

I live in Orange County, Southern California. I graduated from college with a degree in finance, and got into sales. I’ve always had the belief that if I cannot envision something, I cannot achieve it. Early on I got interested in real estate, and read a bunch of books about it. Stuff like Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki.

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